Spider-Man 3: What went wrong? *spoilers*

[sebastian]

Spider-Man 3 came out in theatres today. It failed to lived up to the 2nd one's well crafted screenstory by Alfred Cough & Miles Millar of Smallville fame.

The story's like a blotch of good comedy & bad drama with villains badly woven into the mish mesh romantic drama of Peter & Mary, to only end up being killed just as fast as they showed up. It had a lot of a neat ideas, but ended up rushing them in exchange for a star-studded villain line-up with rushed romance & some nice comedic sequences (lol Emo Parker was neato). SUPER SPIDEY STARS is what this movie should be called. It's sad to say but even the 1st movie had a decent story (though bad execution) to back it up & as much as I despise the first movie, it does hurt me to say it.

From Peter Parker/Spider-Man's corny, semi-serious, yet hilarious one-liners (You want help?...Go to religion. *Me LMAO*) to Mary Jane's impulsively misplaced emotions, A lot of the drama felt rushed over all the mayhem. Yet what amazes me is that the 2nd movie was able to pull it off correctly....What went wrong?....Simple. Too many villains. Way too many for one movie & since we know most superhero films usually last about 2 1/2 hrs at best, it really leaves a lot to be desired. Most of them get rushed backstories, with the exception of Harry Osborn's longing revenge at Spider-Man that has been established in the 2nd film (Hell, I would've been happy if that's what the film was all about).

The way the symbiote came about was really lame & it only ends up completely dismissing the possibility of John Jameson's "discovery" during his space venture. I was pissed that Venom died. I was pissed that Harry died, though it did serve for a very emotional "reunion". Sandman ends up surviving, but it did serve for a good purpose in the development of Spider-Man's character & morals. In the end, most of the villains just end up biting the dust. Now don't get me wrong, I understand that most of the villains have to die in the movies in order to expand upon other future threats Spider-Man faces. I understand it's a necessity in order to progress upon potential future films, but in exchange, this really ruins the potential for the story.

In conclusion, yes I know it's a necessity to mute down the story in order to expand upon a wider audience, from the simple-minded to the tolerance of the more intricate. Liberties must be taken, but in doing so, it may so ruin a potentially good story & arsenal of characters. This is what Spider-Man 3 has done folks. It's an inducing lackluster ride that many will go see anyway if not for the fact that it's Spider-Man.

......Now to everyone's suprise *drum rolls*.. I actually enjoyed this movie. Despite it's flaws, it's an OK popcorn movie to go see with friends.

......OK, I think my brain is completely fried. later

[DaemonCorps]

I watched the 4 PM showing today, and I've gotta agree with you. The first two movies were much better than this one. The movie definitely jumped around between villains as well as character building sub plots. If they focused on just one idea, like Harry's inner demons or Venom/the symbiote, it would have been perfect. I think the problem was that this was the third movie-- as in this is the (assumed) final movie for Spider-Man. Three's the limit for movies without going too far (Rocky anyone?)... for the most part, anyways. This means that they've got to close all the plots they've opened (Harry's little story) as well as appeal to all the fanboys by putting in Venom as well. The result? A whole glob of meh.

And once the baddies got the idea of teaming up in some kind of super battle, I was convinced that some of the stuff was really bottom-of-the-barrel.

Don't get me wrong, though. There were plenty of good points made in the movie. But as sebastian said, it just wasn't handled that well.

I also noticed that there was a lot more comic relief stuff going on in comparison to the past two movies. Off the top of my head, there were a couple of one liners by little kids, some innuendos by Venom, the French waiters, Peter's rent collector, and of course, Parker's boss at the newspaper. Sure, there was some of this stuff in the past two, but I think the writers were just trying to rely on them too much in the third movie.

By the final fight scene, I was really hoping that the movie would pick up somewhat. And sure, they stuck to Venom's weakness to kill him off, but I would have liked each enemy to relate to Peter's having to live with the consequences of his decisions. Only the sandman's leaving and the New Goblin's death directly related to Peter's "internal conflicts." Sure, the whole team up two vs. two fight was pretty neat, but it doesn't really add to the story's plot... er many plots.

And here's some of the little stuff in the movie I enjoyed:
- the funeral, mirroring the one at the end of the first movie
- Peter's hair change to a more "emo" style when he looks at himself in the broken mirror
- the little we see from Venom
- the strong friendship we see between Peter and Harry (and even MJ); it's nice to see that although they've aged somewhat through each movie, they're still not really adults and have to face dramas of friendships and relationships
- Peter's "evil" montage; similar to his "normal boy" montage in the 2nd movie

My final word: I was really disappointed on the whole, but the movie's been hyped so much that you've got to at least see it once.

ugh... too tired to type any more. Expect my review up on filmspot.com sometime soon.

[Mochi]

Venom's still cool though. >D
And I thought it was funny when he went all "emo." XD

[TripleRach]

When I heard there were going to be three villains (I didn't even know about the Sandman at all until like a week ago), my first thought was "Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, and Bane." Thankfully, Spidey 3 wasn't that bad, but it did have a bit too much going on.

The Sandman/Uncle Ben's real killer subplot felt the most out of place (in connection to everything else, that is), so if I had to choose something to wait for 4, that seems like the best choice. Or, alternatively, leave Sandman, and the Venom transformation should have been the ending (which was my theory when I heard his role was limited), leaving room for 4 to be a huge 90's fanboy fest with lots of Venom and Carnage.

It really was enjoyable overall, but they just tried to cram a bit too much into the plot, and Venom's role was way too short to be completely satisfying.

Also, Bruce Campbell was amazing. ;D

[caejones]

SPOILER: Click to show

I'm pulling out all the stops on this one...
And to avoid being influenced, I'm writing this without reading the rest of the thread. Double posting may ensue. ^^.


So, the first thing I notice upon entering the theater is that the airconditioner isn't working. Never a good start to a movie experience...

Well, ok, then the ads start. Well, that's typical movie stuff... wait... what kind of trailers are tehse? on a Spiderman movie? What the Chuck? ... and four instances of 'the hell'. Not that I mind... if it wasn't... you know... on trailers before Spiderman. (now taking bids that 'the hell' is the next phrase to be demoted from profanity class).

And the surround sound apparently isn't working. In all, we're coming into this thing pretty synical. So the movie had better make up for it--after all, that's what we came for.


The first five minutes... a mess. A really messy attempt to bring in all of the characters and storylines at once. Up until the first Harry/Peter fight, I was just... wondering when it would start developing something rather than shoving it at us. Though I did find the Marco stuff to be well handled--at least his introduction. Everything with the characters we actually knew was just... screaming obvious and rushed and all over the place. Hence why this monstrous three-player text RPG should not be made into a movie... .

So ok, the Harry/Peter fight. Well, it was obviously coming, so they had to throw in a few cool things to make it work. And some dialogue. Egh, it worked. Not amazing, but ok.

... And then Harry takes acritical hit that brings his HP down to 1. Or rather, all the time and tactics put itno bringing him back had a very unrealistic feel to it, but egh, had they killed him off like that... the movie would have probably been much worse.

The amnesia thing... Umm.. Egh, it gives us interesting things to look at as the story progresses and characters develop. So ok.


Now, the MJ business. Ah, yes, heroic tragedy... umm... I don't know, sure Spidey had his romance problems, but the way they happen in this one strays greatly from the previous two movies--I'm not getting into the other adaptatinos of the series. Though making things suck for MJ and having Peter accomplish so much only to ... ... still have troubles in a relationship that I thought was cemented last movie... well, it has you watching, anyway. Even though you know they're going to have a bigger crisis later and maybe get back together in the end. Really, I was more worried about what Peter did with Aunt May's ring than the outcome of the relationship... and to avoid an intrusive paragraph, Aunt May was very well played and well written in this movie... I need to rewatch the first two to decide how her portrayal in SM3 compares to the past... but yeah, she was awesome.

Gwyn... I don't even know how to spell it. Ms. Stacy? Stacey? Here I am trying to write a review and I don't know how to spell characters' names... GS, "dead girl walking", or whatever... I'll call her GS for now. Anyway... it was apparent that the writer(s)/other people involved were well aware of the "ZOMG GS should have died in the first movie" backlash, and decided to use her as a means of pulling the story together, and taunting the gripers in the process. I must say, it was surprising for a while, but by the time we got to Simbiote Peter, the awesome of that cleverness wore off. But eh, good while it lasted....
Though, using GS to get Brock into the story without having too many random tangents was briliant, in my opinion, even though it was way off mark with the original material.

So when SandMan starts reeking havic and Peter goes on a revenge streak, we start to see one of the main themes of the story come to the front: revenge is bad. Sure, Harry was all vengeful throughout the movie, but it wasn't until Aunt May gave her little speech about revenge being bad that it became apparent where the rest of the story was going. Sure, we knew Brock would seek revenge on Peter for something. Sure, we knew Harry was about revenge, and ... yeah, but this is what anchors that theme into place... all three of our costumed badasses have this flaw in common, and that's what the story is about... which really makes the romance bit kind fo more annoying, doesn't it?

So ok, Simbiote Spidey is crazy and well done... the movie had you hoping that Sandman didn't die despite Peter's revenge streak... (Umm, yeah. Marco and May were the two characters that got the best treatment in this movie, in my opinion).

Harry gets his memory back and causes hell for Parker... they fight again... it's a little longer than it needed to be, but if it had been shorter it probably would have felt rushed. So yeah... I guess it worked ok. Oh, wait, the Osborn Buttler is a pretty cool guy.

Brock fakes photos! Bad Brock! Peter is still pissed off about stuff and isn't standing for bad journalism and lies! And to top it all off, Peter smokes some more Simbiote and goes out with GS... Ooh, looks like you made another enemy, Spidey! And you told him to get religion... I didn't think he'd actually see that carried out (somewhat). ^^

So Spidey does his "I'm giving in to my dark side" routine. I'm sure the dancing thing would have been more interesting if I'd been able to see as well as I could when the first Spiderman came out... no wait, I never cared for such sequences. I'm not complaining though. A bit lengthy, but ok.

The little jazclub brawl... that was one of those things where not being able to tell what was on screen made it a lot more dramatic. This is really where the drawn out romance in the first half of the movie comes back, although I can't relly decide if the whole hitting MJ thing would have had the same effect without it.

So Spidey goes to a church roof to ... clear his mind? Seek piece? Or God... egh, what he gets is resonance that knocks the Simbiote off of him. But he told Brock to get religion... so Brock is at the church too! Coincidence of a large kind, but believable, since asuckup like Brock probably thought about what Peter said for a while ...

And thus, Venom is born, and Spidey is Emo. With good reason, and I'm not complaining...

... Ah! I forgot another minor character who is actually written in very well: Peter's landlord. Umm... I'm running out of time, so I'll just say he was the awesome. And the waitor at the French restaurant. . JJ... I guess he was ok. The whole monitor thing was somewhat obnoxious, but it didn't overstay, so it's good.


So guess what... SandMan's not dead! Yay! But he's pissed... and Venom knows a little much about him (from the Simbiote?)... so they join forces! and kidnap MJ... what else is new?


So we get to the media coverage of this challenge. I don't know if I like it or not. It captured the classic feel very well... but at the same time it felt awkward. I don't know, I give it acceptance.

But what's this... Spidey/Gobblin team up? Woah, that's awesome! I mean, out of character, maybe, but remember that we're resolving characters without drug use this time... and heck, it just worked with what was set up, and was still a surprise... this is probably my favorite part involving the main characters.

Now action begins.

Venom isn't a badass. He's not awesome. He's not the Venom we know and... ur... love. But he still works, because he is the very personification of revenge, rage, all of the things that had been built up as bad. So I have no complaints about how that fight went.

And the resolution with Marco? I guess it was inevitable, but still well done... and I just like the acting for Marco... . That voice is cool.


Why exactly did Harry die? What was the point of that?

Crap, my time ran out... umm.... Yeah. Aunt May, Marco, the way Venom worked without being cool (how's that happen?), and some aspects of the other elements, though not all... egh, it wins some, it loses some. Now I reboot.

[caejones]

I personally don't think it is impossible to put a lot into a movie and make it good. But it's pretty hard, which is what this movie proved. Had the movie been just about Harry's revenge, I wouldn't have liked it. Had it just been about Venom, it probably would have been annoying because it forgot about other things. It was really Sandman that tied those together, and carried the themes of the story to conclusion. That, and really Sandman was my favorite out of the three villains (which is odd since I didn't even know he existed before the movie came out...).

Egh, I would have liked if Venom had survived, but he fulfilled his purpose and had nothing left to go on for the future; he wasn't badass anti hero, he was a personification... an evil one, so he either has to die, or live on to serve a metaphoric purpose.


The introduction of the Simbiote? Yes, horrible. Very, very, very, horrible. In fact... the fact that it just fell from the sky and grabbed Peter's moped is probably the thing about the movie that annoyed me the most.

Actually I figure that including the whole spaceshuttle thing with JJ JR would have worked better, and would have made the introductions feel less messy and "I'm trying to tell you all of this so the story can start". In fact... I'll go out and say that the introduction of the Simbiote was the most disappointing part of the movie. Time restraints my foot....

I don't like that the movie started with a narration. I don't like how Peter's voice changed. I think a lot of things were more drawn out than they should have been in the first half to avoid feeling rushed.

I think it gets bad ratings though because people were expecting better. I'd say it's about average, really... it's a good movie. Not as good as the first two by any stretch of the imagination... but a good movie nonetheless. And I agree that tons of random comedy is not meant for a good Spiderman movie...

Egh, I forgot about the Camera thing with JJ and the kid.... that was .... *sigh*. Filler!!

So ok, how could this movie have been better?

Well, I'd probably go in medius rais (SP??) with the intro. None of this narrator random character cutscenes crap. Start with the astronaught thing for Jamison's son. Have our main characters gathered there. Bingo: Easy itnroductions of MJ, Harry, and Peter's stories, and the Simbiote gets to hitchhike, and JJ humor is less random and stupid.
We could leave everything else the same... but it'd probably be wise to clean up some things. I think the "get religion" line was actually perfect, since the Simbiote was exchanged at a Church--literary points.

Some things had sort of a "another day in the life of Spiderman" feel... but that could have been cleaned up some. If it had, the "they put too much into it" feel would probably have been fainter.

But still... the minor characters are still striking me as likeable in this movie. Go figure... not so much in the other two. Although I think Doc Connyrs(Conners?) was pretty well written and well played. I think Lizard would have been too much this time, though... but without even hinting at it... I'd probably be disappointed if Lizard showed up in a possible next movie. But really, the ending is pretty good as it stands, and only if Kingpen can show up will a fourth Spidy movie actually work... and that's ... well... no.